AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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April 18, 2014 06:47PM
Hi-

Different programs use different orderings of columns of the bmatrix (row- or diagonal first; also, there's a difference of a factor of 2 in the off-diagonals). Assuming that you are using the correct orderings for a given program, then the gradient and bmatrix are mathematically equivalent.

The difference could involve the 'flipping of the gradients' difficulty... In different softwares, one is required to flip the sign of a gradient sometimes in order to have the correct vector directions (the scalar quantities FA, MD and eigenvalues are not affected by this)-- for example, flipping the y-component of the gradient flips the y-component in each of the eigenvectors. In the *newest* TORTOISE (v2.0.1), which is what was used at the Bootcamp, Okan's data didn't need to be flipped. However, if you have data from a different scanner, then it might need to be flipped. As far as I know, this is just the way things are. You can tell if you gradients are fine or if the particular flip is fine if, for example, a whole brain tractography test gives 'correct' looking results along the well-known corpus callosum.

It sounds in your case that this is not the case with the TORTOISE results, and so you should flip one of the signs of one of the components in your TORTOISE-output eigenvectors, for example the y-component, which is hte [1]-th brick of each vector.

To answer your questions:
1) You should be fine using either the direct estimates of TORTOISE data or doing the fit with 3dDWItoDT. For the processed data, the results should be *very* similar, particularly in WM, differing mostly in ventricle/CSF/boundaries between tissues a bit.

2) Grad/Bmatr/Gmatr are equivalent. You can use 1dDW_Grad_o_Mat to do flipping in the gradients or matrices equivalently as well. If you have reconstructed vectors already, then you can flip a given element/component using 3dcalc.

Please let me know if your issue persists, but flipping should do the trick, I'd imagine, for hte TORTOISE output. Once you have found the correct flip, then that shoudl apply to the rest of your data from that same scanner, hopefully.

--pt
Subject Author Posted

FATCAT

akwl April 18, 2014 12:30PM

Re: FATCAT

ptaylor April 18, 2014 06:47PM

Re: FATCAT

akwl April 25, 2014 12:43PM

Re: FATCAT

akwl April 25, 2014 01:43PM

Re: FATCAT

akwl April 25, 2014 02:44PM

Re: FATCAT

ptaylor April 25, 2014 05:07PM

Re: FATCAT

akwl April 25, 2014 05:33PM

Re: FATCAT

ptaylor April 27, 2014 02:10AM