AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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February 04, 2020 10:11AM
Hi, Sam-

Re. #1: "What are the minimum D.O.F. acceptable for resting state data?"
That's a million dollar question! (Or at least an R21 one....) Given that most people don't report this valuable/necessary bit of information in their studies, I don't believe there is consensus in the field (well, is there consensus about *anything* in the field??). I think many people have ignored the degree of freedom loss with bandpassing, and it is really a problem in interpreting results-- people say "I had 200 time points and censored only 5 due to motion", but they leave out that they probably removed 60% or more degrees of freedom from bandpassing alone (and since each censored time point is one degree of freedom, it would be like censoring an additional 120 time points!!!). Sooooo, I don't know, precisely, unfortunately.

Re. #2: typically, people do bandpassing for the purported reason of removing breathing+cardiac frequencies from the data-- these tend to be >0.1 Hz (however, some can get aliased back into the lower range, depending on the TR...). So, the point of that statement in the help file is: if you want to get rid of breathing/heart rate effects, perhaps measuring them more directly would be better, because then you include a couple regressors in your model (i.e., reduce your DFs by a couple), rather than the much blunter bandpassing (reducing DFs by 60% or more, typically). If you are doing surgery, use a scalpel, not a chainsaw (if you can help it!).

Re. #2b: do I recommend bandpassing: welllllllllllllllllllllll, it's hard to say. There are a fair number of studies that have shown that higher frequency information does contain useful signal (it probably has to, but these have shown there it is a sizeable amount, useful for things like seedbased correlation, ICA, etc.); in particular, see Gohel & Biswal 2015, and other work by them; Chen & Glover have also written a couple useful papers on the topic.
Off the record (no one reads the internet, right?), I would thing that not bandpassing might be a better way to go: you reduce your information content SO much with bandpassing; people say "bandpassing makes my data more consistent/reproducible", but one should note that multiplying all time points by 0 would also make results quite reproducible... OK, that might be going too far, but hopefully the trade-offs are a bit more apparent.

AFNI: complicating analyses with pesky (but important) technical considerations since 1994!

--pt
Subject Author Posted

is band pass filter recommended?

samw September 18, 2019 06:43PM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

ptaylor September 23, 2019 09:48AM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

samw February 03, 2020 02:04PM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

ptaylor February 04, 2020 10:11AM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

samw February 04, 2020 05:23PM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

ptaylor February 04, 2020 09:42PM

Re: is band pass filter recommended?

kausar May 28, 2020 11:03AM