AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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September 25, 2014 09:38AM
As far as I can tell, it is possible to carry out the paired test with differing covariates between the 2 samples only by manually subtracting the data pairs and then doing a 1 sample test with 2 covariates. That is:

Definitions:

xi = first sample voxel value, ith subject
yi = second sample voxel value, ith subject
ci = first sample covariate value, ith subject
di = second sample covariate value, ith subject

One reasonable data model is then

xi = p + ci * r ( + noise )
yi = q + di * s ( + noise )

where p and q are the unknown mean value of the distributions from which samples 1 and 2 are drawn, and where r and s are the unknown slopes of the signals with respect to the covariates as measured in each sample.

Subtracting give the paired data model

xi - yi = (p-q) + ci * r - di * s ( + noise )

In this form, if you first subtract the dataset volumes that contain the xi and yi, then you can do a 1-sample t-test with the 2 covariates ci and di. However, you won't get the single sample t-test results, which you would have to do separately in 2 more runs.

Furthermore, you'll get statistics for the (p-q), r, and s estimates, but you might be interested in some contrasts between the r and s values -- for example, a test of whether r-s=0? That requires reformulating the paired data model, which could be done by defining j=r+s and k=r-s, so that r=(j+k)/2 and s=(j-k)/2, then rewriting the model in terms of j and k, instead of r and s, and then getting the statistics on these manufactured covariates -- and the statistic for k would be the one you'd want. The details are left as an exercise.

Even more furthermore, the above data model isn't the only reasonable one. The second sample occurs after the first one, so the second covariate di presumably doesn't affect the first data point xi, but the first covariate ci might affect the second data point yi. If you want to allow for that, things are yet more complicated.

In summary, you have to (a) decide on what exactly you want to test for, and then (b) construct a synthetic 1-sample test to get it -- synthetic in that you have to manually do the subtraction outside of 3dttest++ and then manually provide the covariates in the form that will result in testing the components of the proper data model.
Subject Author Posted

3dGroupInCorr, paired option, and covariates

heffjos September 24, 2014 12:42PM

Re: 3dGroupInCorr, paired option, and covariates

Emperor Zhark September 24, 2014 04:15PM

Re: 3dGroupInCorr, paired option, and covariates

gang September 24, 2014 04:41PM

Re: 3dGroupInCorr, paired option, and covariates

Emperor Zhark September 25, 2014 09:38AM

Re: 3dGroupInCorr, paired option, and covariates

Emperor Zhark September 25, 2014 10:40AM