AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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March 12, 2009 04:53PM
Thanks for the response. I may not be fluent in your language, but I think I understood it :).

So if I understand you correctly, if I run 3dDeconvolve with the -svd option, with the X matrix we have been discussing with a column of ones, the individual betas will be indeterminate, but I could run a GLT that contrasts certain conditions against other conditions, provided that the contrast meets the criteria you laid out.

I was talking about taking the dot product of the X matrix and c', and passing this product to 3dDeconvolve. This way my betas reflect the differences between the conditions in the original X matrix, and would presumably be equivalent to output of a GLT using c' as a GLT contrast, provided that the contrast meets the criteria you laid out above.

My interest is in now extracting the similarity structure from these data. I was pre-multiplying the X matrix bya contrast matrix because I could then divide the resulting beta vector by the contrast matrix to extact a beta estimate for each of my original, pre-contrasted regressors. So, for instance:

X = [
1 0 0 0
0 1 0 0
0 0 1 0
0 0 0 1
0 1 0 0
0 0 1 0
1 0 0 0
0 0 0 1
];

c = [
3 -1 -1 -1
0 2 -1 -1
0 0 1 -1
];

X*c' = [
3 0 0
-1 2 0
-1 -1 1
-1 -1 -1
-1 2 0
-1 -1 1
3 0 0
-1 -1 -1
];

If I pass this new matrix through 3dDeconvolve, perhaps I get the following beta matrix:
beta = [ .3 .2 .1];

If we divide the beta matrix by c', we get beta estimates for the 4 original conditions:

beta_cond' = [.18, .15, .1, 0]

We have lost the last column, but the pattern across beta_cond remains intact; we've just subtracted beta 4 from all of the betas.

The goal was to get a relative measure of each individual regressor, despite their high level of collinearity. I mean relative here in the sense that it the estimate for each beta doesn't really matter; what matters is that condition 1 showed a greater effect than condition 2 and condition 3, and so forth, and that our estimates of the magnitude of these differences are accurate.

I suppose my original question was "If I pass an X matrix with zero singular values to 3dDeconvolve, will the -svd option cause the betas for these conditions to be interpretable" and if I understand correctly, the answer is no. I would have to run a contrast matrix, either by multiplying X by c' prior to passing it to 3dDeconvolve, or inside 3dDeconvolve itself. Does that sound correct?

Thanks again!
-cdm
Subject Author Posted

SVD in 3dDeconvolve

Chris Moore March 11, 2009 01:39PM

Re: SVD in 3dDeconvolve

Bob Cox March 11, 2009 03:09PM

Re: SVD in 3dDeconvolve

Chris Moore March 11, 2009 07:16PM

Re: SVD in 3dDeconvolve

Bob Cox March 12, 2009 10:32AM

Re: SVD in 3dDeconvolve

Chris Moore March 12, 2009 04:53PM