AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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August 08, 2013 10:26AM
> You mean that doing such a comparison could be meaningless or at least is hard to interpret?

I was just concerned about the interpretation. But if you don't think that is an issue, it should be fine.

> To get a firmer grasp on this I played a bit with the effect of scaling when adding effects
> of different sizes to the data, where two sets of data points are generated, one much
> stronger than the other
>
> The four plots show sorted p-values for four different strengths of effects (0, 1, 2, and 3; arbitrary
> units) using 1,000 iterations per plot. Without normalization all p-values are extremely significant
> (except when there is no effect). With sos normalization they behave a lot better, though a little
> bit on the conservative side.
>
> Do you think this is a valid simulation and would that mean that the sos normalization would be
> sufficiently valid (although a bit conservative)?

The paired t-test is a special one-way repeated-measures ANOVA in the sense that there are only two levels in the repeated-measures factor. Such a model has a sphericity assumption, which means in this case that the variance is assumed same between the two maps. Apparently the assumption is significantly violated because one set of maps has much higher variability than the other, and that's why the paired t-test result is largely inflated.

The scaling by sqrt(SOS) artificially equalizes the variance between the two sets of maps and forces the data to meet the sphericity assumption. In the end it renders a more reasonable t-test result. And your simulations basically indicate the same thing. So again if you're not worried about the interpretation, you are doing fine.

Gang



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2013 10:29AM by Gang.
Subject Author Posted

within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 05, 2013 09:16AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

gang August 05, 2013 02:58PM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 06, 2013 05:32AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

gang August 06, 2013 11:11AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 06, 2013 12:27PM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

gang August 06, 2013 06:38PM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 07, 2013 09:23AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

gang August 07, 2013 10:01AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 07, 2013 01:59PM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

gang August 08, 2013 10:26AM

Re: within-subject comparisons with unequal variances

nick August 08, 2013 11:21AM