AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

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June 12, 2018 09:51PM
Hi, Sondos-

Re.:
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for the first suggestion: 1) from the individual-level results, only keep ROIs that are common across subjects.
I was trying to do that, but I was saying how about in the case where some individual-level results contain fewer number of ROI's compared to the group? Even if I try to reduce the number of ROI's for each subject so that only the common ROI's are left. What could end up happening is that one of the subjects has only one ROI.. so in that case do you suggest I reduce the number of ROIs to match that? Even though the group-level ROI's have 5 ROI's?
yep, that just seems like an inherent difficult-- FMRI data is noisy, and so individual subject results can vary a lot. Using the individual subject ROIs can lead to such difficulties.

Re.:
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and for the second suggestion: 2) map the group-level ROIs to each subject and use those for tracking/netcorring.
In this case wouldn't we be losing some activation information in the process? Every brain is shaped differently and activates differently, so if we were to overlay the group results onto the individual subject level, we may be losing valuable information.
Well, isn't that an inherent difficulty with alignment? ICA is finding group average results anyways. Any method of combining subjects for a group analysis will lose some individual information in the "group test" part, won't it?

Re.:
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So what I've been trying to do is 1. apply melodic (GICA) and get from that the independent components of the entire group of subjects. I then perform 3dMatch on the group level. After that I perform 3dROIMaker for the group in order to get different number of ROI's for each network.

Makes sense

Re.:
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Once I have the ROI's for each network at the group level, I perform dual regression using my 3dROIMaker output and the individual subjects. I then peform 3dROIMaker once again, but this time to convert the individual-level z-score maps obtained from dual regression into ROI's at the individual level. Here is where my problem comes in and the number of ROI's vary across subjects.
I don't understand this part. Didn't you get your ROIs from the group ICA stage just above?

Re.:
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So from this step, that all the DMN networks for each individual level subject contains 5 ROI's for instance. And if they contain over 5 ROI's, I remove the extra ROI's. But then what should I do if there are fewer than 5 ROI's for each subject? let's say some subjects have 4, 3 or even 2 ROI's?
Going back to the initial difficulties with the first method mentioned above, I think using individual-derived ROIs in this way might be tricky. ICA results on noisy individual subject data will likely vary a lot.

--pt
Subject Author Posted

Different number of ROI's per subject FATCAT

sondosayyash June 06, 2018 01:11PM

Re: Different number of ROI's per subject FATCAT

ptaylor June 06, 2018 01:30PM

Re: Different number of ROI's per subject FATCAT

sondosayyash June 12, 2018 07:41PM

Re: Different number of ROI's per subject FATCAT

ptaylor June 12, 2018 09:51PM