AFNI Message Board

Dear AFNI users-

We are very pleased to announce that the new AFNI Message Board framework is up! Please join us at:

https://discuss.afni.nimh.nih.gov

Existing user accounts have been migrated, so returning users can login by requesting a password reset. New users can create accounts, as well, through a standard account creation process. Please note that these setup emails might initially go to spam folders (esp. for NIH users!), so please check those locations in the beginning.

The current Message Board discussion threads have been migrated to the new framework. The current Message Board will remain visible, but read-only, for a little while.

Sincerely, AFNI HQ

History of AFNI updates  

|
July 17, 2012 12:50PM
Hi-

(Apologies in advance for bright coloration of formulae below, but I couldn't get the useful spacing to be enforced without it...)

I should first note, that 3dProbTrackID currently doesn't use the b-value for anything, actually (future versions might, so it's there now, but no need to worry about having multiple values). You can just put `1000' or anything really as a placeholder in the `-algopt FILE'.

As with AFNI reconstruction in 3dDWItoDT, when a single DW factor (e.g., the commonly used b=1000 s/mm^2) is used, then that bvalue is not really utilized in the DT reconstruction (right now)-- one can say that diffusion results are given in units of something scaled by the actual b-value, or in units where the b-value is unity. Thus, only the gradients matter (because they all have the same b-value, they'd all be in the same units).

When multiple DW factors (i.e., multiple b-values) have been used, then the b-value has to be used in the DT reconstruction to have all measures `in the same units'. In this case, one has to use both the b-value and gradients to fit the DT, so the `b-matrix' format is used to gather this information; using such is signaled to 3dDWUncert with using the `-bmatr FILE' option *instead of* the `-grad FILE' one.

The b-matrix is defined as the outer product (or dyad) of a gradient times the scalar b-value. Thus, it would look like a 3x3 matrix (me typing this out will look ugly, but I'll try; a better version could be seen in many places, e.g., the 2nd article in a nice series by P. Kingsley-- Introduction to Diffusion Tensor Imaging Mathematics: Part II. Anisotropy, Diffusion-Weighting Factors, and Gradient Encoding Schemes, in this case for Eq. 134-135):
let the gradient (column) vector be written in terms of components as g = (g_x , g_y , g_z), the scalar DW factor is simply `b', and a given b-matrix component is written with two subscripts as, e.g., `b_xz'. Then, the b-matrix is given by the equivalent forms:
b-matrix = b . g x g^T
=  
[[ b g_x g_x      b g_x g_y    b g_x g_z ]
 [ b g_y g_x      b g_y g_y    b g_y g_z ]
 [ b g_z g_x      b g_z g_y    b g_z g_z ]]
==
[[ b_xx      b_xy    b_xz ]
 [ b_yx      b_yy    b_yz ]
 [ b_zx      b_zy    b_zz ]] .

This matrix is symmetric, so that, e.g., b_xz = b_zx. Therefore there are 6 unique components of it. Therefore, the matrix is often written in a squished linear/vector-type form with values as:
b-squished = [ b_xx    2*b_xy    2*b_xz    b_yy    2*b_yz    b_zz ] .
Note that the `off-diagonals' are multiplied by 2 (this is because it's essentially to have it prepared to be multiplied by another squished vector thing, imitating what would happen if full matrix forms were multiplied). As a sidenote, the order of these components in this form have been chosen to match those output in the *.bmtxt file of TORTOISE.

Ok, so, finally the b-matrix file you read into 3dDWUncert is a series of the squished b-matrix things-- one squished b-matrix per line, and each one corresponding to the given DWI file you have. And you have to include b=0 things as well. Thus, as an example, if you had three b=0 images and then some b>0 DW images, your file could look like:
0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000
0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000
0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000      0.00000
265.752     -213.462     -857.290      42.8651      344.304      691.384
266.464      207.368     -859.558      40.3447     -334.464      693.191
29.3848      138.588     -308.024      163.406     -726.368      807.209
....
(in this case, each b>0 image had b=1000, but that just depends on your scan data.)


--pt



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 12:56PM by ptaylor.
Subject Author Posted

new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 06, 2012 10:21AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Peter Molfese July 06, 2012 11:27AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Chad N July 11, 2012 04:49PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 16, 2012 04:16PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 16, 2012 06:49PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Chad N July 17, 2012 09:56AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ziad July 17, 2012 02:56PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Chad N July 18, 2012 11:40AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Hang Joon Jo July 11, 2012 06:00PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 16, 2012 04:36PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Matt Hoptman July 17, 2012 11:15AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 17, 2012 12:50PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Matt Hoptman July 17, 2012 01:47PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor July 17, 2012 02:27PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

JoJo August 22, 2012 06:53AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Daniel Glen August 22, 2012 12:41PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

JoJo September 01, 2012 01:03PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Daniel Glen September 01, 2012 03:08PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

JoJo August 19, 2012 02:58AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor August 29, 2012 08:59AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor September 09, 2012 08:43AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ptaylor October 26, 2012 10:23AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Phil Burton February 08, 2013 05:34PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ziad February 11, 2013 04:08PM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

John February 12, 2013 01:39AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

ziad February 12, 2013 09:28AM

Re: new tractography programs in AFNI

Phil Burton February 12, 2013 01:59PM